As the installation labor shortage continues, there is much debate on how to go about solving it. There are as many opinions on a solution as there are people in the flooring industry. However, an issue that continues to surface is the relationship between flooring retailers and flooring installers. The division between the two groups is certainly a barrier to finding a solution and only serves to perpetuate it; however, some are finding ways to work together and have expressed understanding of each other’s plight. With that in mind, I reached out to a few of each to get their perspective.
Jump to interviewee:
Kyle Hedin
Owner, Illustrious Hardwoods
Mesa, Arizona
Describe your business.
Illustrious Hardwoods was created in 2016 and continues to serve the larger Phoenix area. I started in flooring in 2015, learning hardwood, laminate and luxury vinyl plank installations. I have continued to hone these skills to offer a high-end service that delivers quality end results done to industry standards. Illustrious Hardwoods operates in the residential remodel market. Our ideal client lives in a $400,000 to $800,000 home.
Do you work with retailers?
Illustrious Hardwoods sells 99% of their own projects direct to the homeowner. I currently have one general contractor that I have worked with for a few years and do one to two projects per year. The reason I do not work with retailers is that I could not find a good partner in that space. I never felt the rates offered were where I needed them to be in order to be profitable; I was unable to secure good deals on providing product through the retailers; and personally, I can’t stand not knowing what I am walking into.
One of the major reasons I cut the retailer out of my equation was that I wanted more control over the projects and the materials used. Second, I wanted control of the profit made from material sales. Combined, it is a very powerful motivator to deal with a few deliveries a month and running a small showroom space. Having the overhead of a 255-square-foot showroom is hardly anything, and it easily pays for itself each month. Being able to provide material has also led to being able to sell just material, so now the company can make profit with very little liability while doing cash-and-carry deals.
What steps have you taken to overcome the installer shortage?
Currently, Illustrious Hardwoods is a one-man band. I have had a few apprentices in the past, but none of them worked out to where they stayed long enough to become a full-fledged installer. In all cases, they had to be let go for reliability reasons. In order to combat the shortage of available talent, I have built relationships with other installation companies in my area and will call in reinforcements when I need help on projects or an extra set of hands for a day.
At one point, I had an offer of a $100,000 total compensation package on the table for a full-time installer that included being able to use the company truck, all tools provided, eight hours a day with occasional overtime as needed, one-week paid vacation, 3% IRA, and room for raises if production was exceeded. I got a lot of calls about being able to subcontract for me because they felt they would be better off that way and make more money. I believe the industry has been led to believe that employees have no chance of being successful in this industry. Under a lot of the companies, I would believe that, but I put together a very fair package that is worth more than the $100,000 in monetary compensation. I hope that my podcast, Floor Academy, can help combat the mentality that you have to subcontract or be your own business to succeed in this industry as it is 100% not true.
What can installers and retailers do to develop better communication?
I believe that installers need to learn how the retail side of the business works and sales associates need to learn how installation works. We need to understand each other’s jobs so that we can understand where mistakes happen and why. That being said, I think many retail sales associates just know how to sell, and there are a lot of mistakes that happen because of it. They don’t know what they are looking at when they are measuring a project or how to sell it properly because they don’t understand nuances of how it gets installed.
The communication concerning projects would be much better if retailers and installers learned each other’s jobs. Estimates would go much smoother. Job prep could have the proper expectations set and the client would know that there are unknown costs that they will need to be prepared for. Setting proper expectations with the client comes from understanding the entire process of buying the floor to installing the floor and lastly making sure the floor is serviced for years to come. Additionally, both installers and retailers need to learn the science of the products they use so they can better sell them, work with them and service them.
Joel Bonstell
Sales/Marketing Manager, River City Flooring
Hudsonville, Michigan
Describe your business.
In October, we hit 19 years in business and currently have around 30 employees. We built the business on specializing in schools but about 10 years ago made some important hires that expanded us into design build, assisted/senior living, multi-family and corporate as well. Then, about 2 years ago, made a hire that specialized in multi-family replacements and restoration.
Do you work with local flooring installers/contractors or have in-house crews?
We have a couple small in-house crews but rely heavily on subcontractors. We have a labor department built solely for the purpose of not only vetting these subs but also maintaining the relationship and qualifications needed for projects. We have preferred crews that we use more often than others and will even schedule projects to work with their schedules to make sure they are the ones that are installing.
All of our in-house installer employees are former subcontractors that came to us wanting to be a full-time employee. Oftentimes, people will try to be on their own, but when the economy turns or they realize the stress of scheduling and benefits, the structure of being in-house gives them some relief.
How has the installer/contractor shortage impacted your business?
There have been times, even recently, that we have had to pass on projects simply because we would not have the workforce to complete it in time. We have learned over the years that over-promising is more detrimental than anything and will cause severe stress on our infrastructure. Luckily, we have an amazing labor department that works on forecasting and lets the sales division know what timeframes are already booked or looking to be booked shortly. They are also constantly on the road and on the phone looking for more installers that they can vet or are open to training. We have also recently looked into sponsoring a construction school on how to train kids in high school for a future in installation.
What can installers and retailers do to develop better communication?
One of the best protocols we have implemented is a jobsite walkthrough before installers show up on the jobsite. A project manager assigned to a specific project will contact the GC or owner to walk the job to discuss what standards need to be met before we can show up. We have found that GC’s like this process as they can then easily talk with the concrete contractor or demo contractor to say this is what is needed. It helps alleviate change order requests and shows that we are the subject matter experts. As far as estimating, our full-time estimators are prior installers, so they know when looking at a project what will be needed. If they do not know, they ask specific RFI’s and will note that if they aren’t answered, there will be a qualification in place to revisit.
Communication will only work if you make it a priority. We strive to have as much communication as possible (written preferred) as we have found that it causes a lot less stress on our staff and also helps maintain our margins.
Dwayne Pruitt
Owner, Pruitt Flooring LLC
Wichita, Kansas
Describe your business.
I am a first-generation flooring installer. I started installing in 1988 for $5.00/hr. At this time, we run three employee crews and seven subcontract crews of which a few were helpers that learned enough skills to run their own flooring companies but still work for us.
Do you work with retailers?
Most of our work now comes from word of mouth and from referrals from one of the residential retailers we work for—Prosource. We also work with a few commercial retailers and a couple of smaller residential retailers. We have found success with these retailers when they let us do what we do best.
As for residential retailers, we find it works best when they rely on us for the estimating, bidding, scheduling and installing of the job. I also find success with these retailers when we work as partners in business recognizing that although we are separate businesses we work for the same goal “customer satisfaction”.
On the commercial side, they tend to get our input up front during the bid process. We are more than willing to help with takeoffs and negotiate a fair price to be able to land the job.
As for the larger retailers, we don’t find a lot of success there. There are numerous reasons why. They tend to run their business based on an employee/employer model, which we are not. They are good to work for because they have a lot of consistent work, but to get that work, you are at their mercy when it comes to pay, schedule and quality.
I believe most large retailers want to make too much of the installation dollars. When a retailer takes 30% to 80% of the installation cost, it doesn’t leave enough for the installer to make an honest living. The installer will have to find a way to cheat whether through quality of work, insurance or taxes. I understand there are costs the retailer incurs in customer acquisition and financing a job, but I feel 10 to 15% would give everyone a better chance of success.
What steps have you taken to overcome the installer shortage?
We have partnered with CFI as well as other training entities in the industry to help solve the installer crisis. One way we are helping locally is by hiring more and more helpers, giving them the same training. We have done this in the past with much success. In the end, we can’t guarantee they will stick with us. But, if not, we hope they stay in the industry. Most will if we can get compensation where it needs to be.
We have also opened our CFI school in our warehouse, continuing our support for training and certification. We sent one guy through the five-week class, but unfortunately, he did not work out. We have found that we may need to work on them for a trial period before sending them on such an extensive course.
What can installers and retailers do to develop better communication?
I think to improve installer and retailer relationships there needs to be work done on both sides. Installers need to get training and certifications and stay up to date on the latest and newest materials and tools. Additionally, they need to take a course on business to keep in compliance with taxes and insurance.
Installers must quit cheating, whether that’s through jobsite practices that are not professional or by unethical business practices. These cost the retailer a large amount of money by forcing their hand to hire quality control and business compliance officers not to mention all the money spent on customer retention and customer satisfaction. These things not only cost the retailer but also all installers who are trying to run legitimate businesses, and they hurt our reputation as an industry.
Retailers must quit looking for a reason to justify taking such a large portion of the labor dollar. When a legitimate installer says, “I can’t stay in business working for these rates,” don’t be so quick to dismiss them, saying “you are pricing me out of the market.” Look at your business model and ask, “Am I taking too much of the install dollar when this installer doesn’t cost me what most do?” Be as willing to change as much as you are asking them to. If you don’t, you are supporting and encouraging the bad habits the industry has been fighting for years so that your business can still profit from the bad practices the industry wants to change.
I am afraid if the retailer is not willing to make these changes, then two things will happen. The installation crisis will continue, and the legitimate installer will become their competition. Many installers have already figured out the retail side of the business and how to make the income they need to be successful. Much of the business happening today is online and without the overhead of a store front and sales staff, installers have a viable option of cutting out retailers entirely.
I do not want this to happen and believe the retailers do have a place in the industry. I just feel common ground must be reached. Both sides need to realize more is expected of them.
Ashlie Butler
President, Bob’s Carpet & Flooring
Ocala, Florida
Describe your business.
We are a family-owned business for 53 years. I'm the third generation. We have 16 stores and 99 employees. My bread and butter is anything flooring.
Do you work with local flooring installers/contractors or have in-house crews?
We work with all local installers; however, we typically work with the same installers over and over again.
We do have a team of about 40 installers and crews. If we need installers, we put ads out, but we pay our current installers/employees bonus and referral fees if they bring us fantastic crews. We keep them by taking care of them—whatever it takes.
How has the installer/contractor shortage impacted your business?
It's slowing down how fast we can install. We are finding carpet installers to be the hardest to find.
What can installers and retailers do to develop better communication?
We all need to be honest with each other. Installers need to be in constant contact with the managers who need to be in touch with the homeowner. It can be easy to lose communication early. Also, lots of pictures should be taken and shared with all. Who does not have a cell phone these days?
Rod Von Busch
Vice President, CDI Floors
Louisville, Kentucky
Describe your business.
Our company has four locations: Louisville, Nashville, Indianapolis and the home base is in Central City, Kentucky. The company has been around since 1968. I’ve been with the company since 1998. We specialize in large commercial projects including health care, education and military facilities. We perform most of our work by subcontracting but also maintain a small hourly crew to lead on many of our larger projects. We are 100% commercial, installing all types of floor covering, including ceramic, resilient, carpet and sports flooring.
How has the installer/contractor shortage impacted your business?
The shortage of qualified installers is a critical issue for our group often limiting our ability to take on additional work. Since COVID, we’ve struggled to find new employees to fill our hourly crew. As a whole, I’m not sure if the image of two men in an old beat-up truck is the way most of the public see us, or if we fail to produce an image at all. The floor covering industry is just not something the average person considers when job hunting.
I belong to several trade organizations and the installer shortage is a hot topic for everyone but I do wonder if it's possible to reverse the current trend unless a greater number of people give it more than lip service. It seems for many years we’ve been talking about the shortage, but until recently, there hasn’t been much of a consistent effort to be involved in finding solutions. The creation of FCEF and that organization’s efforts to provide funding for installation training has certainly helped provide greater focus on the issues. However, I’m convinced that more of us have to be involved on the local level to achieve any meaningful improvement.
A year ago, we formed a group of local retailers, contractors and distributors to help recruit and train what we hope will be part of the next generation of installers here in Louisville. Our group recently completed its first 10-week training session and will sponsor a second class starting in March. We have partnered with local non-profit organizations to help locate our students and are teaching a class at a local career center. At times during the organizing of our program it seemed like a dauting task, but the dedication of our committee members and their willingness to provide funding and other resources allowed us to achieve something that probably none could have successfully completed alone. My advice to anyone feeling the crunch of the installer shortage is to band together with others in your community to seek similar opportunities to recruit and educate.
What can installers and retailers do to develop better communication?
It's sad to read some of the posts on Facebook and other social media sites. Installers complain about how they’re abused or mistreated by the retail stores and retailers share horror stories about how an installer screwed up a job or failed to show up and left them hanging. Unfortunately, some stories, while they may be exaggerated, are basically true.
Those unprofessional installers and unscrupulous business owners have together tainted an industry that for the most part is comprised of honest and hard-working individuals in both camps. However, the problem often boils down to a general lack of communication, understanding and respect for what each party brings to the table.
The retailer needs professional and competent installers and the installers need the retailer. Neither can survive without the other. It’s a partnership created out of necessity but only sustainable when each other feels valued. When we’re so often focused on the negative and what’s wrong, we forget to appreciate those who are working so hard to do the job right. Good relationships are only developed when we demonstrate our appreciation. When was the last time an installer told a retailer thank you for the work and a retailer pat an installer on the back for a job well done?
